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ASPartOfMe
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12 Jun 2017, 11:50 am

'Calexit' Supporters Submit Proposal For California To Secede From U.S.; Audio Excerpt

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Supporters of a plan for California to secede from the union took their first formal step Monday morning, submitting a proposed ballot measure to the state attorney general’s office in the hopes of a statewide vote as soon as 2018.


ARGUMENT California Really Has What It Takes to Secede But is America's largest state ready for the wars that would follow?
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But, even among enthusiasts, there has not been much thought devoted to imagining what exactly a post-secession California would look like. In part, that may be because of a general reluctance to consider what the essence of a nation really is.

Secessionists don’t seem to realize that independence would be just the beginning of the messy political questions. Their laboratory of democracy would be confronted with several immediate experiments. Most American secession movements have been group efforts, from the Confederacy’s wave of departures to New England’s Hartford Convention flirtation with Yankeexit. Theoretically, in late 1860, South Carolinians were prepared to run an independent nation on their own, prompting unionist James Petigru to call the state “too small for a republic and too large for an insane asylum.” No one, however, had designs on fragmenting the “Palmetto Republic” into even smaller pieces.

But California is large enough to function as one or several different nations — or one nation made up of, say, six states, in accordance with venture capitalist Tim Draper’s so-called “Six Californias” ballot initiative. There’s Jefferson, the far-northern hotbed of rebellious rural folk who’d probably push Humboldt County’s hippies to seek a statelet of their own; Los Angeles-anchored West California, dependent only on northern water; the greater San Francisco Bay state of Silicon Valley; Central California, a Texas of the Pacific ringed by liberal neighbors; a swath of land with Sacramento at its center called North California; and South California, stretching from LA-adjacent Inland Empire to the desert hinterland and the Mexican border. If Californians did manage to come together behind the difficult task of securing a peaceful and legitimate withdrawal from the union, they’d be forced to confront that abandoning federalism wouldn’t be nearly so easy.

Without doubt, California’s many minority Republicans — assuming they didn’t all flock to Texas — would push at once to formally institutionalize decentralized government. A quick look at November’s county-level electoral map underscores how strong resistance remains in the far north and Central Valley to Democratic policies. Even many conservatives and libertarians in counties that voted for Hillary Clinton, such as traditionally Republican Orange County, would find it hard to endure life under direct rule from Sacramento.

Indeed, California liberals, as soon as they’re unshackled from Washington, could conceivably take a sharp turn toward illiberal left progressivism, pushing for draconian limitations on guns, smoking, speech, and traditional private property rights. Yet doing so would aggravate regional factionalism and stoke reactionary politics on the right. (California gun sales have already gone through the roof.) It’s easy to envision the reasonable middle of politics clearing out as Golden Staters, not always immune to the appeal of cults and fantasies, rushed toward militant extremes.

With no blueprint to borrow from the United States for making states entirely from scratch, Californians would likely have to resort to the initiative process, where their judgment is notoriously questionable, to hammer out how many states, if any, the Second Bear Republic would include and where exactly their borders would be drawn.

In the alternative, of course, they could fight a civil war. It might be, for example, that state-level secessionists in the State of Jefferson — up in the same northerly region that tilted toward Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary and toward Trump in the general election — would prefer to hive off on their own, outside both California and the United States. And some urban enclaves might wonder if the time had finally come to go full city-state. After all, can anyone really imagine President Xavier Becerra sending the Army of California to take back the Principality of Mountain View, street by bloody street?


Is Russia Behind a Secession Effort in California? The Calexit campaign aims its pitch at progressives, but sports some curious ties to Moscow
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On paper, the leader of the California secession movement lives in an apartment complex near San Diego’s Golden Hill neighborhood. But in reality, the Calexit campaign is being run by a 30-year-old who lives and works in a city on the edge of Siberia.

On December 18, 2018, Russia Today, a media outlet controlled by the Kremlin, reported that “a campaign calling for the independence of California from the United States has opened an ‘embassy’ in Moscow.


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Jacoby
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12 Jun 2017, 12:18 pm

Old story

here is some updates on that proposal.

‘Calexit’ effort halted – but backers to try again soon
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-gov ... 95209.html

Calexit plan is back, but it’s toned down
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-gov ... 59877.html



kraftiekortie
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12 Jun 2017, 12:22 pm

I don't think California will ever secede from the United States----even if earthquakes cause California to break away from the mainland.



eric76
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12 Jun 2017, 2:22 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't think California will ever secede from the United States----even if earthquakes cause California to break away from the mainland.


If they don't secede, maybe we can kick them out.



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13 Jun 2017, 1:02 am

eric76 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't think California will ever secede from the United States----even if earthquakes cause California to break away from the mainland.


If they don't secede, maybe we can kick them out.


If California were to leave the union for whatever reason...

1. Produce costs in the U.S. would increase exponentially. Particularly that of fruit.
2. The federal government would lose hundreds of billions of dollars in tax revenue per year. California grosses the most federal tax revenue out of all of the states, and generated $405,851,295,000 in tax money for 2015 alone.
3. The country would lose six of it's major shipping ports...The Port of Long Beach, Los Angeles, Richmond, Oakland, Stockton, and Hueneme.
4. The country would lose at least 16 strategic military positions and facilities, such as Vandenberg AFB (our country's only defense against an ICB from Asia), Edwards AFB, Point Mugu Special Weapons Naval Air Base, El Toro MCB, Twentynine Palms Marine Corp. Air Ground Combat Center, China Lake Naval Weapons Center, and so on.

Potential consequences:

A democratically biased U.S.
California leaving the union could possibly, over time, cause the U.S. to become more liberally/democratically biased, because California currently serves as a reservoir for liberals from more conservative states, and their relocation to California effectively reduces their voting power. If such people can't immigrate to California (California as a country would likely not have a liberal immigration policy), those who don't move to New York, Colorado, or the pacific north west will likely either move to Texas (Austin) or Florida, or remain in their home state, pushing these regions towards the blue with significantly more voting power than they would have in California.

A bigger international boarder to protect.

An independent California might not have a strong enough military to deter Mexico, or more specifically Mexican drug cartels from essentially invading. At current time, they limit their violent and military style activities primarily to the south side of the border because they know that if they tried to pull that stuff here, the U.S. would send a strong military presence to the border, and not stop at it. So they limit their activities across the border to snowball style drug and human trafficking. They sell the drugs to wholesalers who sell to either gang affiliated or independent dealers, and most of the violence on the north side has nothing to do with the actual cartels. Would California alone do a better job at protecting the border than the federal government? Probably not. If this wall people would like at the U.S./Mexican border had to encompass California, it would have to be a few hundred miles longer.

Nevada.

Nevada's economy consists primarily of agricultural processing, cattle industries, and industries of vice, and California has a a lot of crops, cows, and hedonistic sinners. If California were to go, Nevada would likely follow. The U.S. would lose an additional $18,000,000,000 per year in tax revenue, the Groom Lake military facility (Area 51), and The Nevada National Security Site (nuclear testing range).



ASPartOfMe
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13 Jun 2017, 1:16 am

IMHO any state locality or region that wants to succeed is going to have to do it by force of arms.


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13 Jun 2017, 2:07 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
IMHO any state locality or region that wants to succeed is going to have to do it by force of arms.


This is generally assumed due to the civil war. I'm by no means an expert on the civil war, but my understanding is that congress wasn't very upset with southern states vacating their seats as it allowed for the passage of bills that the south had been blocking, but it was the seizure of federal properties by confederate forces that really triggered the military action.

I imagine a state could manage a defacto secession until federal taxes were due. But if millions of people refused to pay federal income tax, I'm not sure how the federal government would address that exactly. I imagine they would try to garnish what they could and prosecute a few people to make examples of.

In any case, I don't believe secession of any of the states is really in anyone's best interest.



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13 Jun 2017, 4:07 am

California should build a wall.



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13 Jun 2017, 9:38 am

Water would be their big problem. Bet that Central Valley is extra thirsty,all that irrigation.Another big drought and they would hurt.


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13 Jun 2017, 9:59 am

eric76 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't think California will ever secede from the United States----even if earthquakes cause California to break away from the mainland.


If they don't secede, maybe we can kick them out.

An LA Times article from a year ago mentioned how much support the idea gets from Republicans outside California. They get lots of such comments on Calexit stories.


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EzraS
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13 Jun 2017, 10:17 am

So does that mean everyone would need passport to go visit everything in Cali?
I wonder what their National Anthem would be?
Would they need to draft their own constitution?
I guess they'd have their own declaration of independence too.



kraftiekortie
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13 Jun 2017, 11:10 am

California's finances are too screwed up for secession.

They would have to devise their own Constitution.

They could promulgate a Declaration of Independence if they so desire.

The USA's constitution was actually ratified in 1789, 13 years after the Declaration of Independence. In 1776, we basically had nothing besides the D of I.



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13 Jun 2017, 2:57 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Water would be their big problem. Bet that Central Valley is extra thirsty,all that irrigation.Another big drought and they would hurt.


Most of the food California grows is exported out of the state. so much like when there is a drought elsewhere in food prices rise for most of the nation.

For example, when a drought in the midwest impacted grain harvests, the California beef and dairy industry took a hit because the price of feed went up. Since the price of feed when up and some farmers had to abandon their operations all together, and the price of dairy went up due to the price of feed and less competition in the market.

It's in the national interest to ensure consistent water supplies to the central valley and other growing regions of California, to safeguard the nation's food supply, and access to affordable food by the average American.



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13 Jun 2017, 2:58 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
California's finances are too screwed up for secession.

They would have to devise their own Constitution.

They could promulgate a Declaration of Independence if they so desire.

The USA's constitution was actually ratified in 1789, 13 years after the Declaration of Independence. In 1776, we basically had nothing besides the D of I.



All states have a constitution. I imagine that any state the secedes would amend their constitution to include large chunks of the American constitution, and adopt a similar bill of rights.



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13 Jun 2017, 3:33 pm

You heard about Texas secession during the Obama years. And now you hear about California secession from our "Again Great" America.

Quebec is always on the verge of seceding from Canada.

Maybe the Sioux Indian tribe, aka the Dakota Indian tribes, will rise up, and seize control of the two states named after them. The moment they seize North Dakota they will own a big chunk of America's nuclear missle arsenal, making the Sioux nation the worlds third largest nuclear power! They will be able tell us all to "keystone pipeline your ass".



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13 Jun 2017, 5:38 pm

LOL...Of course I know that each state has a constitution.

I would agree that California would probably, even amid the attempt to "put its own words into it," make copious use of the US Constitution.