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13 Russian nationals indicted for meddling in 2016 election

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EzraS
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22 Feb 2018, 9:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Mueller and the other feds looking into this are themselves pretty conservative Republicans. For them, of all people, to investigate a Republican President is in itself significant that there's something there.


It seems more like they weren't given a choice so to speak. It seems like he's coming up with anything he can to toss a bone to an angry crowd.

Agent: "Bob, there's nothing there ffs".

Mueller: "Oh god tell me about it, but I have to come up with something... anything... oh god where's my ulcer medication?"



Last edited by EzraS on 22 Feb 2018, 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

VegetableMan
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22 Feb 2018, 9:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web

You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?


That and saying, "that was different, was done for different reasons, yeah we did that to the Russians but hey that was Yeltson..." and the most used disclaimer, "that was a long time ago and we don't do that sort of espionage anymore wink wink".

If fact we do look like whining hypocrite crybabies, considering our history and reputation for extensive election and political meddling and tampering. The response to that is, it's unpatriotic to point out such facts.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.


The problem with this case is that it has always looked like and continues to look like a complete farce. I feel sorry for Mueller, the guy has probably aged ten years already.


It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.


I am primarily progressive and it looks like a farce to me.


Mueller and the other feds looking into this are themselves pretty conservative Republicans. For them, of all people, to investigate a Republican President is in itself significant that there's something there.


I have a sneaking suspicion a few Russian internet trolls is all they have -- that's pretty ridiculous. But that's not the primary reason I think it's a farce. So, the Russians meddles in our elections? Not really a big deal, since this kind of stuff happens all the time, and we have done far worse, like overthrowing democratically elected governments in favor of authoritarian regimes, when it suits our purposes.

Also, the corruption and election rigging perpetrated by Hillary and the DNC remains the true reason we have Trump as president. The one positive in all this is a Trump presidency may actually wake more people up to what's going on on in our government. If Hillary had been elected, the liberal/Dems would simply go back to sleep as they did during Obama's tenure, which was not any better than Bush's.


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auntblabby
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22 Feb 2018, 9:51 pm

for the upper classes only, "not any better...." but for the working classes, at least the bulk of them have health care now. that is something.



VegetableMan
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22 Feb 2018, 10:02 pm

auntblabby wrote:
for the upper classes only, "not any better...." but for the working classes, at least the bulk of them have health care now. that is something.

It was better than it was before, but Obama and the Dems caved to the Insurance companies and big pharm. Polls showed that the majority of Americans were in favor of single payer.


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auntblabby
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22 Feb 2018, 10:05 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
for the upper classes only, "not any better...." but for the working classes, at least the bulk of them have health care now. that is something.

It was better than it was before, but Obama and the Dems caved to the Insurance companies and big pharm. Polls showed that the majority of Americans were in favor of single payer.

politics is the art of the possible, not the optimal, frequently not even second-best but what is doable with existing levels of political will. if more lefties got up off of their collective tuchas and VOTED, we'd have seen it long ago, and also we wouldn't have this red-tainted nightmare regime now to boot.



EzraS
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22 Feb 2018, 10:08 pm

auntblabby wrote:
for the upper classes only, "not any better...." but for the working classes, at least the bulk of them have health care now. that is something.


Healthcare they can't afford unless they make such a small amount of money they qualify for a subsidy. Which doesn't seem to make much sense since people that low on the pay scale get basically free medical anyways, like Ass-p or my dad's cousin in oregon who went from working full time in a call center to a part time mcjob to get his medical needs taken care of without it bankrupting him.



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22 Feb 2018, 10:11 pm

The Democratic party that actually looked out for the people was destroyed under Bill Clinton. Unless there is real reform to shift it back to the left, we are doomed.


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auntblabby
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22 Feb 2018, 10:38 pm

sigh.... once again :roll: people who make "such a small amount of money" are WORKING CLASS, the middle class are those folks NOT getting subsidies. if you make poverty level income [less than about $10k/annum, aka "underclass"] you qualify for Medicaid. this specifically excludes the working class. if you're making less than 400% poverty level you are working class and qualify for PPACA subsidies. the true WORKING CLASS NEVER GOT ANY SUBSIDIES before PPACA. NEVER. to say otherwise is just perpetuating GOP propaganda.



EzraS
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22 Feb 2018, 11:18 pm

auntblabby wrote:
sigh.... once again :roll: people who make "such a small amount of money" are WORKING CLASS, the middle class are those folks NOT getting subsidies. if you make poverty level income [less than about $10k/annum, aka "underclass"] you qualify for Medicaid. this specifically excludes the working class. if you're making less than 400% poverty level you are working class and qualify for PPACA subsidies. the true WORKING CLASS NEVER GOT ANY SUBSIDIES before PPACA. NEVER. to say otherwise is just perpetuating GOP propaganda.


Please explain to me how a 57 year old security guard I know, who makes minimum wage, is the middle class. He like my aunt make too much for a subsidy and their employer offers a $300 per month $10,000 deductible plan, which aca will only match since it qualifies as "affordable". In what way are these people benefiting from the current healthcare set up? I really very honestly don't get it.



Last edited by EzraS on 22 Feb 2018, 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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22 Feb 2018, 11:21 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web

You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?


That and saying, "that was different, was done for different reasons, yeah we did that to the Russians but hey that was Yeltson..." and the most used disclaimer, "that was a long time ago and we don't do that sort of espionage anymore wink wink".

If fact we do look like whining hypocrite crybabies, considering our history and reputation for extensive election and political meddling and tampering. The response to that is, it's unpatriotic to point out such facts.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.


The problem with this case is that it has always looked like and continues to look like a complete farce. I feel sorry for Mueller, the guy has probably aged ten years already.


It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.


I am primarily progressive and it looks like a farce to me.


Mueller and the other feds looking into this are themselves pretty conservative Republicans. For them, of all people, to investigate a Republican President is in itself significant that there's something there.


I have a sneaking suspicion a few Russian internet trolls is all they have -- that's pretty ridiculous. But that's not the primary reason I think it's a farce. So, the Russians meddles in our elections? Not really a big deal, since this kind of stuff happens all the time, and we have done far worse, like overthrowing democratically elected governments in favor of authoritarian regimes, when it suits our purposes.

Also, the corruption and election rigging perpetrated by Hillary and the DNC remains the true reason we have Trump as president. The one positive in all this is a Trump presidency may actually wake more people up to what's going on on in our government. If Hillary had been elected, the liberal/Dems would simply go back to sleep as they did during Obama's tenure, which was not any better than Bush's.


Mueller's gotten guilty pleas and indictments from guys who were close to Trump. That's considerably more than just a few Russian hackers.


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22 Feb 2018, 11:23 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Mueller and the other feds looking into this are themselves pretty conservative Republicans. For them, of all people, to investigate a Republican President is in itself significant that there's something there.


It seems more like they weren't given a choice so to speak. It seems like he's coming up with anything he can to toss a bone to an angry crowd.

Agent: "Bob, there's nothing there ffs".

Mueller: "Oh god tell me about it, but I have to come up with something... anything... oh god where's my ulcer medication?"


Mueller is the consummate lawman. He's what you'd get if Wyatt Earp and Batman had a baby. If there wasn't anything there, Mueller wouldn't be digging.


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EzraS
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22 Feb 2018, 11:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web

You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?


That and saying, "that was different, was done for different reasons, yeah we did that to the Russians but hey that was Yeltson..." and the most used disclaimer, "that was a long time ago and we don't do that sort of espionage anymore wink wink".

If fact we do look like whining hypocrite crybabies, considering our history and reputation for extensive election and political meddling and tampering. The response to that is, it's unpatriotic to point out such facts.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.


The problem with this case is that it has always looked like and continues to look like a complete farce. I feel sorry for Mueller, the guy has probably aged ten years already.


It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.


I am primarily progressive and it looks like a farce to me.


Mueller and the other feds looking into this are themselves pretty conservative Republicans. For them, of all people, to investigate a Republican President is in itself significant that there's something there.


I have a sneaking suspicion a few Russian internet trolls is all they have -- that's pretty ridiculous. But that's not the primary reason I think it's a farce. So, the Russians meddles in our elections? Not really a big deal, since this kind of stuff happens all the time, and we have done far worse, like overthrowing democratically elected governments in favor of authoritarian regimes, when it suits our purposes.

Also, the corruption and election rigging perpetrated by Hillary and the DNC remains the true reason we have Trump as president. The one positive in all this is a Trump presidency may actually wake more people up to what's going on on in our government. If Hillary had been elected, the liberal/Dems would simply go back to sleep as they did during Obama's tenure, which was not any better than Bush's.


Mueller's gotten guilty pleas and indictments from guys who were close to Trump. That's considerably more than just a few Russian hackers.


Actually it's less than 13 FB trolls and guilty pleas for things having nothing to do with election tampering or collusion as far as anyone can tell.



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22 Feb 2018, 11:31 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.


There are plenty of people saying the same thing who aren't wearing conservative tinted glasses. Personally I've been hungry for something in all of this to make me say holy s**t and start reaching for popcorn. I feel like the guy in that movie yelling, "show me the money!" or that crabby old lady asking "where's the beef?!". Do you really think I care if Trump fries? Just don't invite me to a barbeque when the coals keep going out while I'm starving for something to sink my teeth into.


I have no doubt there will be. Mueller is such a professional that he's taking his time to perform a proper investigation, with all t's crossed, and i's dotted. Just today, Manafort and his lieutenant have had new charges filed against them.


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Kraichgauer
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22 Feb 2018, 11:34 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web

You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?


That and saying, "that was different, was done for different reasons, yeah we did that to the Russians but hey that was Yeltson..." and the most used disclaimer, "that was a long time ago and we don't do that sort of espionage anymore wink wink".

If fact we do look like whining hypocrite crybabies, considering our history and reputation for extensive election and political meddling and tampering. The response to that is, it's unpatriotic to point out such facts.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.


The problem with this case is that it has always looked like and continues to look like a complete farce. I feel sorry for Mueller, the guy has probably aged ten years already.


It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.


I am primarily progressive and it looks like a farce to me.


Mueller and the other feds looking into this are themselves pretty conservative Republicans. For them, of all people, to investigate a Republican President is in itself significant that there's something there.


I have a sneaking suspicion a few Russian internet trolls is all they have -- that's pretty ridiculous. But that's not the primary reason I think it's a farce. So, the Russians meddles in our elections? Not really a big deal, since this kind of stuff happens all the time, and we have done far worse, like overthrowing democratically elected governments in favor of authoritarian regimes, when it suits our purposes.

Also, the corruption and election rigging perpetrated by Hillary and the DNC remains the true reason we have Trump as president. The one positive in all this is a Trump presidency may actually wake more people up to what's going on on in our government. If Hillary had been elected, the liberal/Dems would simply go back to sleep as they did during Obama's tenure, which was not any better than Bush's.


Mueller's gotten guilty pleas and indictments from guys who were close to Trump. That's considerably more than just a few Russian hackers.


Actually it's less than 13 FB trolls and guilty pleas for things having nothing to do with election tampering or collusion as far as anyone can tell.


If those charges weren't connected to this case, they wouldn't have been made. The whole point is to get Manafort, Flynn, and others to roll over on the big cheese - - or in this case, the big Cheeto.


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22 Feb 2018, 11:44 pm

EzraS wrote:
Please explain to me how a 57 year old security guard I know, who makes minimum wage, is the middle class. He like my aunt make too much for a subsidy and their employer offers a $300 per month $10,000 deductible plan, which aca will only match since it qualifies as "affordable". In what way are these people benefiting from the current healthcare set up? I really very honestly don't get it.

minimum wage is working class. according to chamber of commerce, one must NET approx. $43k/annum to qualify as middle-class. your security guard buddy is working class and NOT middle class, by any realistic definition. your friend's aunt must be pushing their net income beyond roughly $80k which is beyond the PPACA subsidy level. IMHO, something is not adding up there, otherwise.



EzraS
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22 Feb 2018, 11:47 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.


There are plenty of people saying the same thing who aren't wearing conservative tinted glasses. Personally I've been hungry for something in all of this to make me say holy s**t and start reaching for popcorn. I feel like the guy in that movie yelling, "show me the money!" or that crabby old lady asking "where's the beef?!". Do you really think I care if Trump fries? Just don't invite me to a barbeque when the coals keep going out while I'm starving for something to sink my teeth into.


I have no doubt there will be. Mueller is such a professional that he's taking his time to perform a proper investigation, with all t's crossed, and i's dotted. Just today, Manafort and his lieutenant have had new charges filed against them.


Added charges of bank fraud and tax evasion to current charges of money laundering have absolutely nothing to do with election tampering and or collusion with Russia. The idea that they're being charged for completely unrelated crimes in order to reel in the big fish, is pure speculation.